How much should I get paid

[creekcomics]

I was recently approached by an editor for a local magazine.  He asked me if I would be willing to create a new on-going comic-strip with the central theme of the magazine.  It is a monthly production, 4 panel, full color strip...how much do you think I should get paid for something like this?

[tyler_durden]

congratulations!!!
his first born baby son!!
oh wait..thats what i require.
have no idea......but congrats anyway!!

[creekcomics]

I already have too many first born baby sons....I need money now...those kids need diapers

[Sean C]

Huh - it's amazing that when artists finally get a paying gig, they don't know what to charge, since there's so few references around for that stuff. Tragic.

I've been trying to figure out how much to charge for a commission project, one that would be used for a college course. I pretty much know what I want to ask for, but I'm still thinking it over.

As for your problem, I'd ask to find out what they would spend, and then try to haggle the price up. Let them start small, then give 'em the old artist BS, elaborating on the amount of work necessary for such a project. One of the best pieces of advice I got during my Design Fundamentals course was, "90% of art is bullshit". It was so simple, but brilliant and true. Use it!

[tom_racine]

Always remember Mr. Scott in Star Trek 2.  Paraphrasing:  "It'll take 20 hours to make all the repairs, Captain, but since you don't have 20 hours, I'll do it in five." 

"Mr. Scott...have you always multiplied your repair times by a factor of four?"

"Of course I have, Sir. How else could I keep my reputation as a miracle worker?"

I use that a lot in my pricing.    Here's a general rule for me...figure out how long it'll take you to do the gig in hours, and then add about 20% to that time for the inevitable delays and unexpected events. Then multiply that by an hourly rate you're comfortable with.  For original art, hand drawn, etc...that could be in the $40-75 an hour range.  More if you're a big time pro, obviously, less if you're 19 and starting out.  Then, factor in the level of the client...it's one thing if you're doing a menu for a local sandwich joint...it's another if you're doing something for IBM's website that's going to be seen by a million people.   What's the circulation of this particular magazine?  Take that into consideration.

Bottom line is that you should come up with a number you're comfortable with.  If they pay you $200 for this gig, will you be happy, or feel ripped off?  Figure out your bottom number, ask for more, and negotiate if you need.  Given my formula...if it takes you 6 hours to create this work of art, and you charge $50 an hour for the writing/art, then $300 should cover it.  Again, you have to factor in all the unique things about this gig and your comfort level.  There are times I'd be more than happy to do a gig for a coffee shop in return for free lattes.

[iowabarbi]

I concur with Tom.  There will always be many variables when it comes to a commission job, but when you're starting out, it's always harder to calculate what you need to get, because you're kind of unsure. Unsure of yourself, unsure of what the market will bear....  I was always afraid of that reaction when I quoted a price and they would come back with,"ARE YOU KIDDING?!!  I CAN'T AFFORD THAT!"  As the years went on and I became more seasoned, I didn't care if they said that. If that was their response I DIDN'T WANT THEIR BUSINESS.  The thing about cheapskates- they get what they pay for. Not only that, but if you do work for peanuts, all those cheap people have a bunch of cheap friends who expect the same.

A business can provide three forms of quality. But only two at the same time.  Affordable price, quick turnaround, and high quality merchandise.  Pick two and make your mark with them.  If you try to do all of them at once, financially you will fail.  If money is no object to you, don't worry about it, but if you're like most of us working scruffs, it does matter.   Most of us put quality at the top.  So, decide on the other two.

Know your value. Believe in it. You hurt ALL artists if you undercut your price.

FWIW - Nowdays, the worst words to my ears are,"Is that ALL you charge?"  GRAAAAAH!

~B

[Sean C]

Just keep in mind that people do try quite hard to screw over artists. Just take a look at Craigslist for the ads for people seeking artists. The vast majority won't offer a dime, but most say it's "great experience", or a "great portfolio piece". Bullshit. They want to profit off your work, which they try to convince you to give away. If anyone tries to get you to come down on a price you feel is fair, then stick to your price. Think about this - most people work an eight hour day, and it can take up to six hours to make a comic start to finish. That's how much time you put into a single strip - almost a full workday. That's quite a bit of time, and it's not worth pennies.

[iowabarbi]

By the same token, it is a marketplace.  Comics are notorious for a HUGE pool of artists with a handful of opportunities. If you do hold to a higher price, you also have to be prepared to be turned down. Frequently.  Comics is not a place to make money in the beginning. Commissioned commercial art is another story, but comics are known for being low paying to the many with just a few folks raking in big bucks.

I'm not saying to take nothing, I'm just saying don't be surprised if they say no, becuase they can find someone to work cheaper.  Sadly.

~B

[tom_racine]

Being married to an actress, I know a lot about the "you're replaceable" concept. At a certain level, all artists are replaceable due to the simple fact that if my wife gets cast in a part, she has to be aware there were 500 women lined up outside the audition, too, all ready to take her place. When you're starting out, or don't have a name, producers and directors will lord that over you.  This is true of musicians, artists, voice over people...heck, people wanting to work at Starbucks!  But, when you reach a certain level, you can definitely look a client in the eye and confidently say your price.  If they want to find some cheaper person, go right ahead.  But I'm a proven artist with a portfolio, and I'll work my butt off for you and give you quality.  Knock yourself out...find someone better and cheaper, by all means...use 'em.

It's a balance. I hate the negotiating dance, even though I'm a lot better at it than I was when I was younger. Working cheap or free when you're 22 can be a great way to get experience and a foot in the door...just remember if you don't take yourself seriously as an artist, no one else will.  I've done my share of spec work...but I don't much anymore, I can tell you that much.

[Sean C]

If you can find some references, find out what other people make for this kind of work. For example, for my caricature work, I charge $80 an hour for parties and functions, while my single commissions vary from job to job based on the amount of work involved. I did quite a bit of research, checking out the websites of other caricature artists before settling on $80. It's a bit lower than average, but since I'm still relatively new to it, and don't have the swing experience brings to charge more. However, it's a very fair number, and people have paid it happily.

Like I said, life may not be fair, but be sure to at least try to get a fair price. Try asking around on sites like DeviantArt, (shudder) ConceptArt.org, or even ImagineFX.com. You might even want to check out the websites of other artists who do similar work. Sometimes, they do display their rates, so you can make an informed judgment call.

[creekcomics]

Thanks everyone for all of the input.  I've done small illustrations for them in the past and they have always paid me
$200 buck for each...it only took me about 2 hours to do those illustrations so $100 bucks an hour seemed pretty darn good to me.
I have no idea how long it is going to take me to do this strip as I have yet to fully execute one.  I just finished the character designs.

[tom_racine]

A quick note with 2 more cents...remember to factor in the length of your relationship you either have or WANT to have with a client.  If it's a one-off, be sure to get as much as you can (within reason, natch). But if you think this is the sort of place that's going to be a regular gig, you can adjust accordingly.  I'd rather get a recurring $100 out of someone than a one-time $300, y'know?  Most of my clients are the return kind, which is always nice.

I still think I should go to refrigeration school, though.  It'd be a lot smarter.

[Mike Cope]

Congrats on the paying gig, Brian!

To add a few more points for consideration ... Are you able to re-sell this same cartoon to other markets?  Or is this a "custom" feature?

Many small circulation magazines will only pay $50 a cartoon (larger ones will pay $200 or more); however, these are usually for one-time rights, and so the same cartoon can be sold again -- provided the new clients don't expect first-time rights!

If you're creating this feature soley for this publication, then it would be worth more to your client (as well as yourself).  For example, I currently do a monthly cartoon for a "junk hauling" company's website.  Some of these cartoons have the company logo placed on the side of a truck, but the gags are generic enough that (if I delete the logo) I could TRY to sell the same cartoon to a magazine like Reader's Digest ... However, the only guarantee is that I'll sell the cartoon once.  Although it's a website, my client is essentially getting "first-time" rights and pays accordingly.  They also have permission to archive the cartoons online.

If you give your client something they want, they'll be happy to buy a new cartoon from you each month.  Also, if you have some other paying gigs in your portfolio, it's a lot easier to justify a certain pay rate.  From the sounds of your post, this may be one of your first, so my suggestion is to NOT undersell, but don't overprice either.  Get a decent buck for your bang and use it as leverage when the next client comes along

Best of luck with this opportunity!

- Mike

[Mickel]

Mike brings up a good point. If you do the comic for them for a year and develop a great readership, due to the circulation, do you have the copyright to create a book using these strips without permission from the magazine?  Again, this is more long term thoughts, but I think everyone here agrees keeping your copyright is important. Congrats!

[n_y_japlander]

Make sure to ask (unless you already know) if this is an exclusive comic.... if yes, then charge, they approached you not the other way around. If this is not exclusive, offer it to them... then let them know that they might see it on the web a day after they get it...
Just because you are starting out, do not be afraid to play hardball, especially if the confronted you...